KDE should work with the rest of the software world as much as possible and not just look within itself. This means having KDE programmes on Windows because that is useful for me and you and all the other people who have to use Windows occasionally. Its useful having Gimp and Firefox on Windows, it would be useful having Umbrello and Konqueror too. Of course for that to happen we need a Free version of Qt on Windows.
It also means using D-BUS and HAL and anything else which comes out of freedesktop.org. We like DCOP, D-BUS is essentially a platform independent DCOP, we should use it. HAL might not be great to work with (so I hear) but it's the best there is and fantastic for users.
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Other commenters don't get it
Jonathan, you are exactly right and the tone of the other commenters is exactly why KDE will always lose to Gnome. Novell just hired the gtk+ windows maintainer fulltime, there are great gtk+ apps on windows now, and Novell also has crossplatform solutions with Mono and gtk+/windows forms.
Oh well, the other posters can keep up their delusions that KDE can somehow beat windows on the desktop while the rest of the world has a grasp of reality.
I'd love to use Kdevelop on windows (I hear it's getting close), but Kdevelop is not going to get me to switch to linux KDE
Qt/Win32 has been available for years
there are great gtk+ apps on windows now
There are great Qt apps on Windows now, if I remember correctly Trolltech said most of the licencees are using it there.
Nice that some company is willing to put resources into GTK+/Win32 to become a viable alternative, especially for those poor C developers
Qt/Win32 has been available for years
"Of course for that to happen we need a Free version of Qt on Windows."
http://www.trolltech.com/download/qt/noncomm.html
"If you would like to create Qt applications for Windows using the current Qt edition,
please contact sales@trolltech.com to discuss the correct licensing for your situation. "
Currently, the downloadable Qt for Windows is based on Qt 2.3,
which is kinda old tough.
For instance, Doxygen use Qt 2.3 internally.
So, make your point work with MinGW and cygwin.
It would be nice to see Windows version of KDE apps.
For instance, in a work environment where some people use
KDE and other uses WinXP, some KDE apps can be used by everyone,
where as the current statu quo means that KDE fans are forced
to use WinXP mainly **Free MSDN Universal subscription** apps
to create whatever they need instead of other choices,
because of business policy.
Boss, if provided a "free choice" as in free beer, often are open
to the idea to switch as long as it does not disturb the company
and that a Windows version is available, if the application
as merits, free, easier to use, etc.
Basically, if you happen to work in a Microsoft shop,
it is easier to convert people gradually by making them
use free alternatives instead.
Good examples are:
TortoiseCVS instead of SourceSafe
PostgreSQL instead of SQL Server
Apache instead of IIS
Firefox instead of Internet Explorer
PHP/Perl/JSP instead of ASP.net
Eclipse instead of Visual Studio
Samba, OpenSSH, Putty, ...
Therefore, if we can gradually switch a Microsoft shop
into 'better' alternative then it's easier over time
to make them switch to Linux/KDE. Then if they are stuck
with tons of legacy Microsoft patterns.
Just some tough.
Fred.
Qt/Free for windows
Of course for that to happen we need a Free version of Qt on Windows
My guess is, if the Free software developers on Windows really wanted to have Qt, if there were really a need for it, they would have more people working on the Qt/Free port for Windows.
All the other toolkits like GTK+ or wxWidgets are community maintained on all platforms, Qt/Free would only have to be community maintained on Windows.
Obviously only a small group of developers is working on Qt/Free for Windows, so I guess that most Qt developers either ahve no intention to use Windows, own a Qt licence or use the non-commercial licence, probably the more recent one from the book.
you just proved the point though....
This is about moving people to Linux. I don't care about win32 users, in fact I wish them the pain they deserve. Ask Digtal Research, or Novell, Citrix, Adobe or Inuit how easy it is to beat Microsoft at their game on Windows? I'll give you a hint, they can't. Who uses WordPerfect now days, DR DOS? Lets compare the market share of Citrix vs MS Terminal Server, or Novell's desktop client vs MS's? You can't win. Thats why I moved to Linux, cause I at least stand a chance.
My question to you: "Why would you use KDevelop on Windows instead of Linux?" There is nothing that KDevelop can do on Win32 that it can't do on Linux. Honest I'm curious of the answer.
I don’t care about win32 u
I don’t care about win32 users, in fact I wish them the pain they deserve.
I'm so "pained" by using XP. Sheesh. With comments like that, I'll wait for you to mature a little before I respond to your question.
so in other words...
... you are too cheap to pay for Windows tools?
No need to be immature about it. Obviously you are new to the business world. Decisions in business are about pain. There is either lack of pain or pain. Few find pleasure from their desktop system, and if they do I question their sanity. It's like enjoying using a screwdriver or something. If the pain of moving to Linux is less than the pain of using Windows there is a migration. Plain and simple. Thats sales, thats marketing, thats business. My goal is to see a Linux migration. To do that is to maximize the pain of the Windows platform. Since I'm not in a mental state to write a virus or scam-ware, the best I can do is not help them be in less pain. Not having KDevelop is a pain to you, unless you get some sort of pleasure from seeing the splash screen. Also in your eyes a switch to Linux is painful. More painful. Now in the business world its all about compromise. If you cant have what you want, you take what you get. So its your mission to take what you get. Thats life.
So, come on, I'm interested why someone who thinks Windows is so great would want a free tool for it, when they have so many other IDEs out there. Windows has no C/C++ compiler, so you need one there. Possible solutions are MSVC or MinGW. Windows has no autotools support or native QMake support, so you need that there. Possibly solutions commercial Qt or cygwin. Note now either way you end up in the same situation. If you have MSVC why do you need KDevelop? If you have mingw and cygwin why do you need windows? So please I waiting for you to prove my point.
… you are too cheap to pay
… you are too cheap to pay for Windows tools?
No, I have VS2003.NET at home.
No need to be immature about it.
I'm not surprised with your unimaginative comeback because you should be embarrassed about your comment wishing "pain on windows users because they deserve it."
Obviously you are new to the business world.
I've been programming on linux professionally since 1997. www.jbmelectronics.com. Probably longer than you. I use XP at home.
There is either lack of pain or pain. Few find pleasure from their desktop system, and if they do I question their sanity. It’s like enjoying using a screwdriver or something.
I question your sanity with a comment like that...or maybe linux on the desktop isn't all you thought it was cracked up to be.
...Thats sales, thats marketing, thats business. My goal is to see a Linux migration.
And what are you selling exactly?
To do that is to maximize the pain of the Windows platform
Even more laughable.
Not having KDevelop is a pain to you,
Nope, I run linux at the same time as windows via colinux. That must "pain" you.
Also in your eyes a switch to Linux is painful. More painful.
There is no either or, no matter how much you wish it.
Now in the business world its all about compromise. If you cant have what you want, you take what you get. So its your mission to take what you get. Thats life.
..some meandering babble.
So, come on, I’m interested why someone who thinks Windows is so great would want a free tool for it, when they have so many other IDEs out there.
The irony of your comments is that KDevelop is very Visual Studio like, but with support with more languages. Maybe not all on equal footing, but making progress.
If you have MSVC why do you need KDevelop?
Maybe some people prefer Kdevelop over MSVC.
Unluckily for you, ports of various KDE applications are being done for windows no matter how much you whine about it.
Sorry Jonathan, but the call
Sorry Jonathan, but the call to port applications to Windows is actually an admission that free desktops, and KDE, have failed not just to capture share but technologically as well.
If people port everything to Windows (which entails a lot of work) can you tell me what the point of an integrated desktop and KDE actually is?
choice and slow migration
Your comment may well be right if we all had the chance to choose OS.
Unfortunately some of us (rather most of us) are forced to work on windows at work. We, as coders, though, are allowed to use our own tools to code, and we choose kde apps. That doesn't mean I prefer windows, or that I'd ever use windows at home.
Also, you should notice that the port of some applications make people curious about opensource choices. They hear about firefox, they hear about OO.org they see inkscape,... and they think.. what else is that linux world? Granted that if we ported all apps that would indeed be negative, but a few sweets attract users.
I've seen people using linux just because 2 or 3 apps work better on linux. So they setup a dual-boot, and test linux for a while. After all, what users mainly look for are applications, not just desktops or OSes.